How Do Proposal Managers Get Seen as Strategic? ✹ Robin Davis, CEO @ Metre

Winning RFPs and being seen as strategic, with Robin Davis of Metre

The stargazy Brief

Speakers: Christina Godfrey Carter, founder of stargazy, and Robin Davis, CEO of Metre

Chapters

• 00:08 Introduction

• 00:40 Meet Robin Davis

• 02:16 What separates winning proposals from losing ones

• 04:04 Should proposal teams influence the pre-RFP relationship?

• 06:27 The MAGIC framework for value propositions

• 08:27 More is not better: the five-binder recompete

• 09:18 How to win a recompete

• 12:24 Getting the proposal team involved early

• 13:37 Influencing the RFP in healthcare

• 15:47 What makes healthcare proposals unique

• 18:40 Specializing in one industry

• 19:50 From sales admin to strategic partner: Robin's story

• 25:27 Be useful: the Batman and Robin approach

• 27:21 Quiet value and getting your reps in

• 29:02 The one thing to start doing next week

• 33:12 How to get funding for your proposal team

• 37:10 Speak the language of leadership

• 39:58 Where to find Robin

• 41:39 Closing thoughts

00:08 Introduction

Christina Godfrey Carter: Hey, Stargazers. Today we are speaking with Robin Davis, the CEO of Metre, which is a consulting firm that helps healthcare companies win RFPs.

So the first half of this conversation is us deep diving into the different pieces that she sees trip companies up in losing RFPs. And then the second half of this conversation, she has given us specifics on what you can start doing now to change your perception, or uplift your perception, within your organization. I can't wait for you to listen to Robin and learn so much from her. Let's get into it.

00:40 Meet Robin Davis

Christina Godfrey Carter: Hey, Robin, thank you so much for being on The stargazy Brief. I already know that the people listening to this are going to get so much value from you, just based on conversations that you and I have already had. Um, but just so people are really aware of what you've been doing over the past 17 years. It has been 17 years? You've been running your own firm, helping companies respond to and win RFPs.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Correct. Yes. Yeah, and I built proposal shops inside two companies where they didn't exist. So it's kind of like the third iteration of me building it.

Christina Godfrey Carter: You did it twice and you're like, "I can just do this now for anybody." I love that.

Robin Davis: Yeah, I'm just like, "I think I've got this."

Christina Godfrey Carter: I mean, the whole point of people bringing you in, I think, is probably of course to help set up or fix whatever might be within their current proposal team or RFP setup, but it's more than that. They're not just bringing you in for fun, right, to make something nice in an org chart. They're bringing you in because they probably want to win more RFPs.

Robin Davis: No. Yeah, I mean, most often it is. They recognize that there's something they're missing, or it doesn't feel good to them, and they call us to say, "I don't know." 'Cause sometimes it's not even that they're not winning. It's just that they know that something is not working and they don't feel like they're putting their best foot forward. Or it's, you know, their big strategic must-win. This is a huge client. It's a big part of their business. And they want to do it differently and more strategically than they typically would do that project.

02:16 What separates winning proposals from losing ones

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, and I'm curious, then: do you see anything that really separates proposals that win from proposals that lose?

Robin Davis: Preexisting relationship is really important. Being able to, you know, tell us who the customer is, know what they want, what they don't want, what their pain points are, who really has influence over the decision, all of those things. And what does that person care about? Being trustworthy, you know, building that trust with the client. If it just falls off the truck and you're like, "Yeah, let's respond to that RFP," and you don't have a relationship, you're probably not gonna win that.

Focus, right? Making sure that what you're talking about is relevant to them. It needs to be them-centered. It's not about you. Proposals are about the client and what you do for them. And backing that up with real-life examples of ways that you have done the thing that you're selling them.

And then clarity, right? It's gotta be easy to read and easy to evaluate. Easy to read is, especially in the healthcare space, which is where we work, a lot of acronyms. And I'm sure it's true for most industries. Acronym soup, we call it. And so, you know, getting away from a lot of that and making it plain, simple language that a layman can understand.

Easy to evaluate means finding the information you're looking for. If you're the evaluator on the other end, make it easy for me to find the information I'm looking for, and answer the question. And that consistency across the entire book, right? So having that one voice, so you get to understand the cadence of how that proposal is going to be written. So as the evaluator, you're catching on pretty quickly and can skim to the information you're looking for.

04:04 Should proposal teams influence the pre-RFP relationship?

Christina Godfrey Carter: Some of that, proposal teams can control, and some of it feels like they don't have control over. So the parts, especially the pre-RFP parts, like having the existing relationship or preexisting relationship. Is that something you think proposal teams should have some control over?

A quick message from stargazy (04:21)

Christina Godfrey Carter: Hey, editing Christina here to tell you that we have something really exciting happening at stargazy. We already know that so many of you are being asked to respond to more RFPs than ever before, and you're given an LLM and a proposal automation tool and told instead, "Go and do more." We can help set up your processes, your content and everything for you so that it works the way you need it to. So if you need help setting that up, making sure that your LLM is using workflows that are genuine proposal best practices, so that you get to win and not AI slop, and even use stargazy's win data that we know really gets people to win if they do certain things within a process, we're here to help. If you want to take a look at what that entails, you can take a look in the description. All right, let's get back into it.

Robin Davis: I think they should be in the conversation, providing that consultation to their salespeople or their account managers. We do that for some of our clients. We go in and we do a training for the salespeople or the account managers and say, "Hey, here's how you can prepare for that RFP all year long. Here's some questions you can ask." Providing them a list of questions, asking them to listen for specific things. How can you influence the RFP? So having that kind of relationship and trust with your customer, who is your sales guy or your account manager. Treat them like we want them to treat their customer. You know, they are our customers.

Christina Godfrey Carter: A lot of the time the proposal team and the sales team, we butt heads sometimes. And I think that in some ways that's good. But also, if we do treat them as, "Hey, we should be training you on what to do before an RFP," so that we're not just annoyed at you every single time an RFP comes in because you didn't do it the way we know you should be doing it. I think you're right, that is partly on us, and there is something we can do about it.

Robin Davis: Yeah. If you want influence over anything, then, you know, push and shove are gonna happen unless you change the dynamic of that relationship. And that's up to you. You know, you've got a choice in that.

06:27 The MAGIC framework for value propositions

Christina Godfrey Carter: But a part of when you do train your customers, you have a framework, a MAGIC framework. Is that what you call it?

Robin Davis: Yeah, yes. So MAGIC is just a framework of how you write a compelling value proposition. And it's just our way of describing proof, benefits, features. And so MAGIC is an acronym. MA stands for main attributes, G stands for the gets and the gains, I stands for indicators of success, and then C stands for competitiveness. So these are your differentiators.

And so it was a really easy way. I was trying to think of an easy way to have the client understand when I say, "We don't need everything. We need these four things from you in order for us to write a compelling response." And so MAGIC was a really nice way to present that and facilitate that collaboration between the writer and the subject matter experts. Just, "If you just give me these things, I can take it from here. You can give that to me in bullet points. I can interview you, whatever is easier for you."

So it really helps with that resistance, with not throwing in everything and the kitchen sink. And so if there's pushback, that's where the pushback is happening, right? 'Cause it's like, "But more is better." More is not better. And so this helped with that conversation.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, I really like that, because most people don't have training on what makes a good response, what makes a good answer. And if you were a salesperson or a pre-sales person, why would you know that? Um, so that's really helpful. And they do want to put in everything possible. Like, "Well, they didn't ask about this, but this is a differentiator, so let's just add it in."

Robin Davis: No. No. Right. Right. Right. Right. "Let's throw that in. I know they need it." Yeah, but do they know they need it? That's the difference. Right.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. And they also can't score it if it's not a part of the score. Anyway, I could go on about this forever. I'm sure you could too.

08:27 More is not better: the five-binder recompete

Robin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had a client that was so proud of the last submission. So he brought us in to help with a recompete. And he was so happy with his last submission because it was five three-inch binders, and it was so big, and he did all of this work. And I went in there and I said, "Okay, we're not gonna do that this time." And he's like, "Yeah, we are." And I'm like, "No, we're not. And you're gonna trust me on this. You're gonna see that it's better."

So it took me, you know, the whole... it was a 60-day project with them. And, you know, the further we got into it, I said, "See how this is better than this?" And by the time we submitted it, he had come around, and he's like, "Okay, all right, I can see why that's better." Yeah.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. No. More is not always better. Yeah, definitely not.

09:18 How to win a recompete

Christina Godfrey Carter: I mean, you talked about a recompete, though. So, okay. I think we all get really comfortable with recompetes. And so we just assume they love us. They say nice things to us and about us. They come to our conferences, whatever it is. So we kind of... I think, anyway, what I see is people get really lax around those recompetes. So what do you make sure you do to win those recompetes, so that they genuinely are safe?

Robin Davis: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's a bad assumption. If you think everything's okay, why are they going to RFP? Number one. And that is when we go in and we do strategy with our clients, discovery conversations with them before the RFP drops. One of the first questions is, you know, "What's working well, and then what's not working well?" And it takes a long time to get them to the "what's not working well" part. And it's like, you gotta be honest, because these guys know what you're doing well. They know what you're not doing well.

So in a recompete, I think what's really important to winning is being transparent and honest, right? And owning up to maybe some things that didn't go so well. And framing that in such a way that "This thing happened, and it happens. And here's how we fixed it. And here's how we changed our business because of it and improved, and made things better." So, you know, you can turn that frown upside down, but you're still owning that. And accountability says a lot to an organization, especially to building trust. So I think that's really important.

The second thing that I think companies miss a lot is reminding them what you've done for them, right? Because you can't just assume they remember all the things you've done for them during this contract period. So it's going back, as you're responding to the questions, and reminding them of things that you have done along the way. That is really important, because it helps them imagine a world without you. "If we didn't have you..."

Which leads to kind of my next point, where there are things that you probably do for them that are not in the contract. Things that just happen, relationships that are built, additional responsibilities they've given you because you're delivering well on something. And it's good to remind them of those things, and even influence what the RFP questions are going to be, if you have an opportunity, right? Because it's like, "Hey, we do this thing for you." And that goes back to having those conversations before the RFP comes out. "We do these things even though it's not in our contract. So you want to make sure you're going to put that in the RFP. Because if you want that same level of service, or whatever it is, from somebody else, you need to ask that question."

So I think all of those things are important, because when it comes down to it, a recompete could mean jobs lost, market share lost, revenue lost for the company. And that's a lot of pressure.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. Absolutely.

12:24 Getting the proposal team involved early

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, no, it is. But I think proposal people really do feel that, especially when the RFP comes up on that recompete and it's like, "Okay, well, what's been going on?" And so, have you seen proposal people be a part of that recompete early on? And do you think that they should be?

Robin Davis: I think they should be. Absolutely. How often they are depends on the culture of the company. And it goes back to that relationship building with your customer, which is sales and the account manager. If you have built and nurtured that relationship, there's maybe a better chance they'll bring you in early.

Also, find that data. Is that data in your CRM? When is that contract going to expire? Do you know six months ahead, as the proposal team, what's coming up for renewal? That way you can proactively reach out to the relationship owner and say, "Hey, I see that contract is coming up for renewal in six months. Are you expecting an RFP? We'd love to start, you know, planning around that." So that's helpful too. You wanna be seen differently, you wanna be brought in earlier? Then show up and be a part of that conversation.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah.

13:37 Influencing the RFP in healthcare

Christina Godfrey Carter: I have so much I want to say around that. Yeah, I love it, because it does make you more strategic. You're not just seen as more strategic, you are being more strategic. You are making it less likely for you to lose an existing client, which of course everyone cares about. So what do you see? Because you work in healthcare, you work in a regulated space. What do you see as possible for influencing what goes into that RFP, and what do people see as acceptable and not acceptable in that space?

Robin Davis: From an influencing-the-RFP-questions standpoint?

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, yeah.

Robin Davis: Yeah. You know, because sometimes in our industry there's employers who will go to... so, our clients, let me just set this up a little. Our clients are health plans, or payers, or TPAs, which are third-party administrators. Sorry, threw an acronym at you. And so the employers are going to these brokers and asking them to go, you know, assess the market: "Bring me some proposals for healthcare benefits, and then we'll choose the best one."

So what's missing a lot, I think, sometimes is the payers not having those relationships with the brokers. You know, even if they do already have a relationship with the employer, do you have that relationship with the broker too? Because ultimately they're making that recommendation. And so I think that's important, to be able to influence from that angle. And being easy to work with says a lot to a broker. People want to work with people they like. And so if you have that relationship with a broker, you have a better opportunity to influence what's in the RFP.

Sometimes in the federal space, Medicaid, Medicare Advantage, federal government stuff here in the US, there's often a pre-RFP. And so before they send out the final RFP, they give you a 30-day window, typically, to review that RFP and offer any recommendations for improvement on it. And that's a nice process when you're able to do that.

15:47 What makes healthcare proposals unique

Christina Godfrey Carter: It's so smart to do. But in terms of healthcare specifically, let's say I work in a different industry, but healthcare in general, like services, is really interesting to me, both, you know, the federal side, but also just the commercial side. What should I think about? What makes healthcare unique? What should I know about it if I do want to move over?

Robin Davis: Well, the industry is complicated by design. Um...

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. Very.

Robin Davis: So really knowing how that system works, right? How do all of these players play a part in the overall system? That is really important, especially from a writing perspective, or even any perspective, I suppose, as part of the proposal team: knowing how things connect, and how the money flows, right?

And there's hundreds of policies, and federal regulations, state regulations, and you can't possibly know all of those things all of the time. But, you know, we have AI now. There's great research capability to find out what's going on for that specific employer or specific company that you're working for, in that state or wherever the client is. There's a plethora of information out there that you can get at any time. So knowing at least the surface level of what's going on in the industry that's impacting that customer. Yeah, really understanding what they're facing. Because healthcare in the US is in an emergency situation right now. And understanding that will really help us be better partners for them.

Christina Godfrey Carter: So if you like complex situations and doing research... yeah, okay.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Hey!

Robin Davis: Yeah. And, you know, just knowing a little bit of that goes a long way to that credibility. You know, everybody on my team has at least 10 years of experience working on proposals in healthcare, because I feel like it's that important that I'm bringing that kind of subject matter expertise, at least on the industry. And that's a huge value to my clients, and why we only do healthcare.

When I set up my firm, I'm like, "Well, I know healthcare. That's where I come from." You know, when I set up shop, I didn't want to do, you know, construction RFPs. I know nothing about that. So it's never been a bad idea. Seventeen years later, still going, just healthcare. That's all we do.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, no, I have no doubt that people hire you and want to work with you and your team because they get that. And it is complicated.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Yep.

18:40 Specializing in one industry

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, I know a lot of people who are like, "Do I go into one niche, or do I branch out?" It's like, oof.

Robin Davis: Yeah. And it's a preference, it's a personal preference. I had people be worried about me, and I'm like, "Well, you know, I can always pivot later if I need to." Because at the end of the day, if someone came to me and wanted me to work on an RFP, I'd consider it. You know, I've done some things that are on the periphery for friends, or for fellow business owners who asked me to do them a solid. And I'll do that, and I'll say, "I'll do it for you, but I've got to go find that expert in your industry." And so I will recruit somebody who understands that industry, 'cause it's still important that I'm putting somebody on that project that knows it.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. Yeah, I find that so interesting, because I see a lot of firms make the decision to try and bid on everything, and I don't think it necessarily always goes in their favor. So, yeah.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. And it's a lot to manage different expertise, if you have that focus in mind, which I do. I only want to put people that know that industry on a project.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah.

19:50 From sales admin to strategic partner: Robin's story

Christina Godfrey Carter: No, I love that. So I do want to pivot the conversation a little bit more towards our individual selves, or maybe our teams, if we manage teams. Because I don't think it's any secret that it can be really tough, as a proposal team leader or proposal individual, to be seen as strategic within the wider organization. We're often hired to be seen as admin when, you know, we can be so much more than that, and are so much more than that. So, obviously, you've done this in so many places, so I want to get your thoughts on all of it.

Robin Davis: Yeah. You know, I'm gonna come at this and tell you a story, because I fell into the proposal world as an administrative assistant to a sales team at a healthcare company. This was the early two thousands, and they started getting RFPs. And of course they would come to me and say, "Hey, Robin, can you go find all the answers to these questions?" And I'm like, "Sure."

And then I thought, "Well, that was harder than I thought it was gonna be, finding all those answers and that information." And secondly, "I don't know who we're talking to. I don't know anything about the customer. So how am I gonna make this really impactful if I don't know who they are?"

It was a wonderful company, very entrepreneurial. And so I went to my boss and I said, "There's gotta be a better, more strategic way of us doing this work," and that's quite a heavy lift. And so I found the Association of Proposal Management Professionals, and I went to my first conference, and I was like, "This is a whole thing. This is a profession. And I dig it, and they already have it figured out. Best practices, tools, all this training. Got it, cool."

And it was a convergence of all the things that I love, which is writing and problem solving and collaborating and connecting different pieces of information to bring that together and tell a really compelling story. And so I just found that really exciting. And so, through the trajectory, long story short, I came back and said, "Hey, we need to do this as a function. I'd like to build it. Can I do it?" And I got the permission to do that. I had to go fight for a budget, fought for team members, and I was off and running.

But I had to change my rep, right? I had to change my reputation in the organization, because they knew me as the admin to sales. And so I understood that. I understood what I was facing and how I had to change that. And that just started organically, with the conversations that I was having across the organization because I was working on an RFP. And so it started out with the baseline of just building those relationships up, and people seeing me in a different way that way.

But probably the single biggest impact that really changed my reputation inside the organization was that I started reporting out monthly what we were seeing in RFPs, what the market trends were. For example, at the time, the 24-hour nurse line all of a sudden became kind of a buzzword and an industry thing. And so we started seeing those coming through in RFPs, and we didn't have a solution for that. Although we had lots of call centers and nurses on phones, so we could do the work, we weren't selling that as an offering.

So I just put together this two-page report of market trends: what we're seeing coming through in RFPs now that hasn't been asked for before, where we're winning, where we're losing, by market segment, by broker. "Hey, we're always winning with Lockton. We're never winning with Mercer. Someone might want to address that," you know. So just things that I thought would be impactful to sales leaders and product leaders throughout the organization. And so I just started sending that out on a monthly basis. And it wasn't a huge lift for us, because I was tracking that stuff anyway.

And it was probably the third time I sent it out before anybody responded or even opened it. And I just sent it to the heads of all of the departments in the company. And finally somebody in our product department opened it and called me, and they said, "I opened your report. How do you know this information?" I'm like, "I'll tell you what, here's a secret. We know more about this company, probably, than anybody else inside the organization, because by proxy of writing about us all the time, we know what's going on in every corner of the company," you know, at least to the depth that we need to know.

And she was like, "Wow, that's really interesting. Can you also tell me this? Can you also tell me that?" And so then I started getting requests: "Hey, do you also have this information?" And so, you know, the report grew, but it also got me invited into meetings. It got me invited to their department meetings to talk about things.

Or I'd ask. I'd say, "Hey, can I get on the agenda? I would love to talk to your account managers about preparing for recompetes, right, when contracts are coming up. I'd love to get on your agenda." I'd not ask them to come to where I am, but, "How can I get in the room where you guys are already having a meeting, if you just give me 15 minutes to talk about what we're doing?" So that made a huge difference. Just taking the lead.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (Editing Christina here: Why do I say this a lot in podcasts? Readers, do you do this, too?!)

25:27 Be useful: the Batman and Robin approach

Christina Godfrey Carter: Okay. So, I mean, there's so much to dive into here, because I really like this. I feel like, okay, you are being incredibly proactive with the data that you already have, and that no one else in the company really has in aggregate the way you do. But instead of just sitting there and being like, "Okay, what's our win rate?" which, you know, is important to know, you looked at it like, "Hey, this is what our revenue leader cares about, or sales leader cares about, or product leader cares about. Here's some stuff that's gonna help you do your job better, or make more money," whatever it is.

And then you saw meetings that you weren't in. You're like, "It'd be really good if I could provide my information there." You literally asked to be in those meetings if you hadn't been invited to them yet. A lot of this is you just being proactive and useful, right? Yeah.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Just being useful. When you help someone else succeed, and it's not a huge lift for you, I mean, win-win. It takes away the friction, right? Why does there need to be friction?

You know, I tell this story too, and it's easy because my name's Robin. But I say to some of my salespeople, men typically, because they love Batman, I'm like, "Listen, you're Batman, I'm Robin. And my job is to make you look like the superhero that you are when you go out there in front of your clients and your customers. I want you to win these deals. And so help me help you." And when you frame it like that... because who doesn't want to be Batman? Women too, who doesn't want to be Batman? So, you know, setting the tone of the relationship. You want things to change? Then change it.

'Cause I hate that. I hate that about our industry, that it's such a struggle. And I do believe it's where we came from, a lot of us that fell into this. But if you want to be seen differently, then you have to act differently. And, you know, that's it. That's the bottom line.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

27:21 Quiet value and getting your reps in

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. It's like you're saying, a lot of us came from a very specific background. A lot of us came from journalism. And so, I mean, I think a lot of us also see ourselves as... this isn't true for everybody, this is a generalization, but a little bit more quiet, a little bit more introverted, instead of the sales roles, which, you know, have to be out there, of course, in front of people. And so I think we sometimes use that as an excuse to hide behind things. So what you're talking about almost doesn't even require that much in-face, in-person "Hey, pay attention to me." It really is just providing value in what you already have. I don't know.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Yeah, sure, sure. Mm-hmm. Sure. It can be that quiet value. It can be that report that shows up in your inbox and you didn't talk to anybody to get it. It can be quiet.

Also, I think there needs to be an advocate for every department. One-man shows, you can't do the work and think strategically at the same time, you know. And you can't have that environment. You know, you do need an advocate that's advocating for your team. But there are those quiet things that you can do on your own. Yeah.

Christina Godfrey Carter: It's tough. Yeah. Even if you're quiet, you can still ask to be in a meeting you should be in. You just gotta do it.

Robin Davis: That's right. That's right. That's right.

Christina Godfrey Carter: And I think the first time you ask those things, it can be a little bit scary or intimidating, especially if you're earlier on in your career. But the second time you ask, it's easier. Third time, easier. Less and less scary. Yeah.

Robin Davis: That's right. That's right. My speaking coach calls that reps. Get those reps in, and get used to being turned down. Get used to that, because it gets easier. And eventually you're gonna get better at it. You're gonna fine-tune how you approach it. You just gotta get those reps in.

29:02 The one thing to start doing next week

Christina Godfrey Carter: So what would you suggest? Let's say I'm running a proposal team. I am overwhelmed with all the things I need to do, but I also know I need to change how my team is seen, or how I'm seen. What's the one thing you'd do? Like, "Hey, next week, go do this thing and start doing this thing."

Robin Davis: It goes back to the same thing that we ask our relationship owners to do, and that's build the relationship. Relationships are foundational to everything. Just building those relationships, whether that is, you know, somebody on your team that's doing that, or, again, giving someone value. Not being the hero, right? Having some humility, and recognizing that, you know, "I wanna serve you." And when you approach your relationship owners in that way, you just get a lot farther.

Christina Godfrey Carter: So, of course, every single company is different with the meetings that they have, but are there specific meetings that most companies have that you think proposal leaders should be in?

Robin Davis: Yeah. Sales meetings.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Sales, yeah.

Robin Davis: Definitely get in sales meetings. Get into account management meetings. They have them monthly or quarterly. Sometimes they're big, you know. If you're with a big company, sometimes it's a big annual where they bring everybody somewhere to do that. And just get on those. Do webinars, you know, if that's something that is culturally acceptable inside the organization. You can do that as well.

Christina Godfrey Carter: And okay, let's say I'm invited to those QBRs or those pipeline calls, whatever it is. What do I need to do to prove value? 'Cause it's gonna be really easy for me to go and be like, "I'm just gonna quietly observe," you know. But what do I need to do to be like, "Okay, I'm valuable, what I have to say is valuable, invite me back for next time"?

Robin Davis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And is this with your customer too, or just internally with your team? Okay. Okay.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Internally, I think. Like, "Yeah, I'm strategic, invite me back." Yeah.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. To get invited back, just deliver. Deliver something. And so it could be information. I was talking about that report. It could be, "Here's what I'm seeing happening in the market, in the RFPs that we're getting." It could be some research that you've done. If you're going to talk about a specific client, do some research on that client, or internally on how things are going with that client. Get as much information as you can, and then deliver on that.

There's also thinking while you're in the room. There's a little bit of thinking on your feet, but strategically engaging. If we're going out to RFP, let's say this is a recompete, start pulling in data and stories. You know, when you're in the room and they're talking about a particular situation, maybe that they overcame, or, you know, in healthcare, "There was this great member experience that we had," I'm like, "Great, document that. We're gonna need that later."

And so you can give them tips about that: "Start gathering that now, because that's gonna be really, really rich stuff that we want to put in the proposal." So you can, you know, go back to the MAGIC and think about those main attributes, gets, gains, those types of things. You're educating them at the same time, but they don't know that you're educating them.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, it's almost, just how you're talking about it, it's almost like thinking of, "Hey, my internal relationships within the organization that help me win in some way" as what we need to do with our customers as an organization. Obviously you're not responding to a proposal, but you're doing a lot of the same things strategically.

Robin Davis: Yes. Yes. Doing a lot of the same things. Just take what you would see a salesperson doing. And, you know, we're salespeople on paper, is how I feel. I'm a salesperson. And my customer is the relationship owner. And I want to treat them the way that we're asking them to treat their customer and know their customer.

33:12 How to get funding for your proposal team

Christina Godfrey Carter: A lot of these people are one-person teams. They're doing it all themselves. They're trying to do what you're saying, the strategic work, but also doing the work at the same time. And I see that now as incredibly problematic, not just for the reasons you said, but because we're receiving more and more RFPs than we ever have before, and more revenue is based on those RFPs than ever before. And yet we don't get funding for that. So what would you say to the person who's like, "I need somebody else to help me out. I need, you know, software to help me out"? How can I get funded, essentially?

Robin Davis: Yeah. The report that comes out from... is it Responsive that does the report? It might be Loopio, one of those. So leverage those. A couple of years ago, the measurement was, by industry, how many RFPs are used in the buying decision. And I used that metric for a long time, because it was 60%: 60% of a healthcare company's business is earned through RFPs. That's powerful.

And so when you look at that data, you can articulate that to your leadership and say, "If 50%, even if it's 40 or 30%, if 30% of our annual revenue is coming through the door through RFPs, we need to do this more strategically. This is really important. We're a revenue-generating department. And when I'm not given the resources, with the expertise that I need to do the work, or the tools, whether it's software, I'm not going to be able to do the work that I know I can do for you if you allow me to be more strategic. But to do that, I can't be buried in RFPs at the same time."

So I know it's easy for me to say, as someone for whom it's been a long time since I had to fight for dollars for my team. But, you know, I'm out there selling my services every day, which is...

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah, exactly. People aren't gonna purchase your services unless they're like, "I need budget for this. I'm putting out budget for this." Yeah.

Robin Davis: That's right. That's right. And there's a metric in our industry that, you know, three to five, or I think it's one to five percent of the overall value of the contract that you're going after should be spent on developing your proposal, because that is such a key part of the process. 'Cause if you don't advance, you're done. You're out. So it's pretty critical that proposal for that sale to keep moving forward.

And so if you're under that... the cost of you is probably way under, especially if you're a one-man shop. Way under, I imagine, that metric of up to five percent of the proposal value being spent on developing the proposal.

So for us, we started reporting that out to our clients, right, so that they understood, 'cause some of these projects are huge, and it's a lot of money for them. So at the end of every project, we do an impact report that shows, "Here's the hours, here's the expertise that we brought in, here's what we produced from that, and the number of pages, and here's your ROI, because the contract value to you is this, and this is what it cost you to bring us in." And every time, it's coming in under that one percent.

And so if there's a way that internal teams can take that same thought process and do that same sort of math, say, "You know, this took me 40 hours. As an employee, that cost you this. The contract value is a million dollars a year over three years. That's three million dollars. We've got a lot of room here to grow this team, and we can do a whole lot better." I hope that was helpful.

37:10 Speak the language of leadership

Christina Godfrey Carter: That was really helpful. Because what I hear a lot of the time when people want help, whether it's bringing in a firm like yours, or software, or another hire, is "I'm really tired. I work a lot of evenings and weekends." To me, obviously, I'm like, "Gosh, we gotta get someone in to help." But your sales leader is probably doing that too. And that's probably not going to move them as much as, "Hey, here's this data, and revenue." You have to speak in their language. I don't think you can rely on empathy as much as we would sometimes like. It does kind of come down to those numbers, like you were saying.

Robin Davis: Yes. Yes. I had Jeff Person, who was my boss for a while when I was at this company, and he was a finance guy, and he really taught me how to use numbers to make cases. Just use numbers, because you can't argue with them. You know, I mean, I suppose you can, depending on where the data come from, right? You might get that. There's always that person. But, you know, numbers talk, and show the value in that.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 'Cause I think it's worth knowing, for everyone, that, you know, usually your CSO or your CRO is going into a board meeting, and the board is looking at the numbers. They're looking at that spreadsheet. Their CEO, their boss, is looking at the spreadsheet. And it's all trickling down. So you have to speak that language all the way up.

Robin Davis: Yeah. And with your sales leader, the head of sales, you want to talk about, "What are your revenue goals for the year?" right? Know what those are. What are the company's revenue goals? And, you know, "If 50% of that relies on my team doing this well, then show me some love."

And when you're talking to the salesperson, you can talk more about the qualitative or soft-skill type of areas, because that's your person in pain, right? It's your salesperson. They're not happy with the quality that's coming out, or they're, you know, working around the clock, working just as hard as you are on that project and spending far too much time on it. With them, you say, "I can do this better with more resources, and you can then participate appropriately." Appropriately doesn't mean you're at the end of the day trying to write a proposal off the side of your desk when you're tired. That's not good. That's not good for anybody. And you're not trained to do this. You shouldn't be doing it. You are not the right person in the right seat. And so we can frame it. It's kind of knowing your audience and who you're talking to, and making that case all the way up.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Just like in proposals. Same skills, different people.

Robin Davis: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Same skills apply here. Back it up with proof and numbers, and all that stuff makes a solid response.

39:58 Where to find Robin

Christina Godfrey Carter: This was incredibly helpful, Robin. I think it's good for both: here's how we win RFPs, but also here's how we win as an individual in an organization. So I appreciate this so much. Yeah, I know you do.

Robin Davis: Yeah. Yeah. I really believe in proposal professionals, man. I mean, we make the world go round. I'm so passionate about us, you know, and this community. And yeah, just like anywhere else, it's up to us to take the lead in a lot of ways.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Yeah. Absolutely. And where can people find you? Let's say either I want help and I need to hire your firm, or I just want to learn from you, because I know you do so many, you know, different speaking events and everything. So, yeah, where can people find you?

Robin Davis: Yeah. Well, our website is Metreworks. And "metre" is the European spelling, because we're fancy. M-E-T-R-E works.com. And email me at robin@metreworks.com. You can find me on LinkedIn. I love connecting with proposal people on LinkedIn. We do a lot of posts pretty consistently. I would say a lot: once a week. We're posting valuable information about our clients, about our community. So that's a really rich place for us to be.

We're about to launch a new website that will have a blog. And so those are gonna start coming out and showing up in inboxes more. So we're building that. APMP: we're always at an APMP conference, and we have a booth, so you can always find us there. I'm pretty sure we're in the directory on apmp.org, so you can find us there as well.

Christina Godfrey Carter: Excellent. I'll have links to everything in the show notes so people can find you very easily. But thank you so much, Robin. I appreciate this.

Robin Davis: Great. Awesome. Thank you.

41:39 Closing thoughts

Christina Godfrey Carter: I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. If you want to, I would suggest going and inserting yourself into the pre- and post-RFP processes that Robin mentioned. It's going to make your life easier. You're going to win more. You are going to be more strategic, and therefore seen as more strategic.

And then I also hope you start those newsletters. Start aggregating all that data that you have. It will help your product leaders and help your sales leaders be more successful, and know that it's partly because of you that you did that.

And if there's that meeting that you know you should be a part of, but you haven't been invited to just because of your title, go and ask. This is me giving you permission. Robin told you to be brave. I'm telling you to be brave. All right. I will see you next week. Now keep gazing at the stars.